Saturday, March 14, 2020





SHOULD CHURCHES CLOSE
FOR THE DURATION OF THE EPIDEMIC?



Episcopal churches are now faced with the dilemma of whether to close for the duration of the coronavirus epidemic. Various dioceses and many local churches have announced shut downs for the next few weeks. The bishop of Alabama has closed all churches in this diocese for at least the next three weeks. There are to be no public services here. The dioceses of Washington (DC) and Virginia have also closed churches for the next several weeks. Several rectors around the country have tested positive. Find the latest from the national church here . This contains a list of responses to the health crisis by diocese.

Regarding lower South Carolina, as of this morning, three churches (East Cooper in Mt. Pleasant, St. Francis in West Ashley, and St. Mark's in Charleston) have closed in the Episcopal Diocese while the others apparently remain open. Find the information of the EDSC here . One should keep checking this webpage for information on what is going on in the Episcopal diocese of SC in regards to church responses to the epidemic. As of this moment, there has been no notice posted on the Anglican diocesan website about church closures.

Speaking for myself and no one else, I think it is wise for churches to act on the side of caution for several reasons. One is that the Episcopal church has a high percentage of attendees over the age of 60. The CDC has declared this group "at risk" for the virus. Secondly, the coronavirus is highly contagious and spreads easily by coughing and sneezing. It can remain alive for days on surfaces touched by infected persons. Moreover, an infected person may not know he or she is infected for two weeks. Meanwhile he or she is spreading the virus to numerous other people who would then be giving it, unknowingly, to numerous other people, and so on. It multiples quickly. Too, anyone with immune compromising underlying health issues is "at risk" from this virus. The death rate of coronavirus is ten times higher than that of the ordinary flu. 

At the same time we should be taking common sense preparations of protection, we should not panic or grow hysterical. There are signs this may be happening in some places. If you have been to the grocery store recently, you would probably not have been able to find certain items. My family in Bay Saint Louis reported yesterday that people there have stripped the aisles of all the stores. The panic there is worse than for a looming hurricane. As for me and my family, we are planning on a 30 day isolation except for absolutely essential outside travel. We have non-perishable food items on hand. We also have our phones and our computers.

This epidemic will eventually pass, but we are in a few hard weeks. The best thing to do is keep the faith. Do not panic. Be prepared. Keep checking with the NIH and CDC websites for the latest information on the epidemic. And, keep checking on the church websites regarding church policies and procedures. Finally, do not forget others. Keep checking on family, neighbors, and friends. Let's do what we can to help others, especially the elderly and other vulnerable people. We have a lot of social media to do that. Now is the time to use it. Peace. 

Friday, March 13, 2020





VIDEO OF THE DAY



A couple in their eighties were too frightened to get out of their car and shop in the grocery store, in Bend, Oregon. They were terrified of catching the coronavirus. They waited in the parking lot for 45 minutes for someone to come along. Rebecca Mehra came along. The couple asked her to buy their groceries, gave her a hundred dollar bill and a list. Mehra happily obliged and brought the groceries and change back to the couple patiently waiting in their car. Acts of simple kindness such as this will help us all get through the health crisis we are in. Find the video here .

Mehra's advice is spot on---check in on your neighbors, parents, grandparents, and friends. You may not know what a difference you can make for them in this hour of crisis. At the very least a kind voice can calm fears. A lot of people are awfully frightened right now.




CHURCH ATTENDANCE
AND THE CORONAVIRUS



In yesterday's blog post about the virus, I encouraged people to attend church for the foreseeable future even as we prepare to respond to the public health crisis at hand. I said we need the church and the church needs us. I have reconsidered that thought. In the first place, I want to be responsible and careful about what I say on this blog. I have always sought to be factual and reasonable. In my view, there is no such thing as too much information (as those who have read my history of the schism can confirm). A lot of people read this blog and trust what I have to say. Some 500 people a day click on to this site. 

I now think each individual person should consider whether to attend church during the COVID-19 crisis. 

Our best sources of information about the coronavirus are the National Institutes of Health, find their website here , and the Center for Disease Control. Find the CDC website here . I recommend that everyone consult these sites and follow the advice therein.

According to the top professionals, anyone over the age of sixty and/or with underlying health issues that compromise immune systems should take extra precautions to avoid the virus. Underlying issues would be conditions such as heart disease, diabetes, lung diseases, and cancer. The CDC classifies these as "at risk." We know the mortality rate of this virus is worse for older people.

Code words of the day are "social distancing" and "self-quarantine." In other words, stay away from other people because this illness is contagious.

It is important to know how this virus spreads. In the first place, as the CDC says, it "spreads easily" (I interpret that to mean highly contagious). How does it spread? The CDC says it spreads in two ways: airborne and surface.

In airborne, if one is within six feet of an infected person and the infected person coughs or sneezes, one is likely to receive the virus in the droplets, expelled by the infected person's nose or mouth, moving through the air. 

Furthermore, an infected person  may not know he or she is infected for several days and could be spreading the germ unsuspectingly. The CDC says a person may have the virus without overt symptoms for up to fourteen days. Thus, your neighbor at any social gathering may appear to be completely healthy, and even believe that he or she is virus free, only to know differently a few days later. By then, he or she could have infected many people unknowingly. This would grow exponentially. 

The other way coronavirus spreads is on surfaces. According to the CDC the virus can live for days on surfaces. This is why we do not want to shake hands at church, or anywhere else for that matter. Surfaces would be not just the body but possibly items an infected person has touched.

Just as I tell everyone frequently I am not a lawyer, I am also not a medical doctor and I am not giving medical advice.

I am saying keep yourself informed about this virus. There are good, reliable public health websites available for that. 

Meanwhile, I for one will be reconsidering whether I attend church for the duration of this crisis. I am over the age of sixty, red flag. I do not have underlying health issues, green flag. Everyone should weight the evidence and the advice from the medical professionals and decide for him or herself whether to attend church, or any other public social gathering where people will be within six feet of each other.

We as a society will survive this health crisis even though there will be vulnerable individuals among us who will not survive. We are in for a rough time in the next few weeks, possibly months. Unfortunately, we cannot expect to have a vaccine against coronavirus for eighteen months. We are on our own in protecting ourselves and that is where our informed common sense comes in.

For us church people, each of us should weight for him or herself the pluses and minuses of attending services. Meanwhile, keep checking on your friends, neighbors, family members and love and care for them as we Christians are called to do. 

P.S. If you have anything to share with others about how we can get through this crisis, please contribute. We want to know what you think. Send to the email address above. 

Thursday, March 12, 2020






FACING THE VIRUS



Public health officials tell us the coronovirus is on us. The world is in a pandemic. Dr. Fauci said yesterday things will get worse before they get better. He was certainly right about today. Things are worse. In the next weeks, they are likely to get much worse as the virus spreads. Although only a tiny percentage of people who contract the coronavirus die, it is still ten times more deadly than ordinary influenza, according to Dr. Fauci. 

The number of cases in the United States is growing rapidly. Government officials are scrambling to impose all sorts of measures to "mitigate" the spread of the virus. They do not seem adequate to me. For instance, only very few people have been tested. There are not enough testing kits. Federal government measures so far are woefully inadequate. The president, as usual, is clueless.

The stock market is collapsing. Today it dropped a whopping 2,352 points, 10% of its value---in one day! This is the worst one day fall in 33 years. In the last month, the Dow has lost 20% of its value, from about 29,000 to about 21,000. There is a sense of panic on Wall Street.

What about church? In lower South Carolina, there were two important developments today.

In the first, the Anglican Diocese of South Carolina announced it has postponed its annual convention that was supposed to start tomorrow. Find their announcement here . Presumably, it will be held later, perhaps in a non-traditional form.

In the second, the Episcopal Diocese of South Carolina issued a letter from the chair of the standing committee and a letter from the archdeacon concerning ongoing church services. Find the letters here . There are two take-aways from these letters:

1---No handshaking in church, period:  "Refrain from handshakes at The Peace and at other times."

2---The common cup will continue, but drinking from it is entirely at the discretion of the communicant:  "Receiving Communion of One Kind in the bread alone is always a valid option for a communicant."


Only speaking for myself and no one else, here is what I think is important about church during the looming virus sweep:

---Go to church if one is not infected. We need it individually, and the church needs us. In times of peril, we need the comfort and reassurance of our ancient ritualized religion more than ever. We are one body. We need to be present to show it. (It should go without saying if you are infected, have tested positive, or think you could be infected, stay home in self-quarantine.)

---Instead of shaking hands, I intend to use friendly gestures as slightly bowing, holding my hand over my heart, waving, and elbow bumps. All of these show caring without the danger of transmitting germs on the hands. Of course, everyone should wash hands thoroughly before going to church, as well as afterwards.

---I for one will be taking the wafer only and not be drinking from the common cup until the danger of the virus has passed. Intinction is not a sanitary substitute. In fact, it is germier than drinking. Germs from the hands and fingers get on the bread and are transferred to the wine. After a few intinctions, well, you get the idea.


We will get through this health crisis together. It is best not to panic or grow hysterical. It is a bad virus, to be sure, especially for the elderly. It looks now as if the virus will spread in our communities. It is important that we keep check on our friends and neighbors and follow the Golden Rule. Love and care for the sick as we would want them to do for us. (In the great Spanish Flu pandemic of 1918, my grandfather went door to door in the rural countryside of south Alabama caring for dozens of his neighbors who were sick and dying. There were cases where whole families died and he was the only one nursing them at the end. Yet, he himself never caught the flu.)

As for now, common sense measures can help us get through this crisis and keep it at a minimum. Meanwhile, keep abreast of what is going on in your local church and keep an eye on what the diocese is advising. Peace.

Tuesday, March 10, 2020





HIGH ANXIETY



Yesterday was a nice day weather wise, and so I worked in my garden. It needs a lot of clean up at this time of the year. We had a relatively warm and wet winter and many plants are blooming out early. I had planned to post pictures of my garden for my usual Friday garden walk this week, but I think we need a break right now rather than a few days from now. It seems as if all of us are suffering from high anxiety.

The world seems to be in a near panic over the coronavirus. China is in crisis. The whole country of Italy is in lock down. The virus is spreading rapidly in America. Alabama has had no case of it yet, but it is only a matter of time. Two students at Jacksonville State University, who live in Georgia, tested positive. They were workers at a hospital in Georgia where an infected patient was housed. They are under self-quarantine and it is not known if they have infected anyone else.

The president of the United States is incompetent and, as everything else, is treating this problem as a public relations issue rather than a health crisis. With Trump, everything has to be about him. Fortunately, there are outstanding health care professionals who are dealing with the matter on the national scene. The president needs to shut up and get out of the way to allow the actual geniuses, as Dr. Anthony Fauci, to do their critically needed work.

The stock market has gone into wild fluctuations. Yesterday the DOW dropped 2,000 points, the worst fall in 12 years. This morning it up a few hundred points. The markets are out of control because of the economic chaos around fears of a pandemic. Who knows what they will do next. The stock market hates uncertainty.

Even our churches are in chaos. Should we close down the churches? Should we stop communion? Should we share the common cup? Should we shake hands at passing the peace? Should we touch anyone at all? The news reported that Christ Church in D.C. shut down when the rector tested positive. What are we going to do when our own local rector tests positive? (Love and care for him or her, I hope.)

Meetings, gatherings, concerts, sports events etc. are being cancelled or postponed all over the globe as people have cleaned out shelves of hand-sanitizer and toilet paper. Just try to find a face mask. It is already a panic in ways.

So, to get a brief respite from the craziness of life all around us, let's stroll through my garden.

My garden is in what I call its Second Phase of the growing season. The First Phase is in late winter when the bulbs predominate and some of the early spireas bloom out. Camellias are the great stars of the garden all through the winter, some blooming in early spring. Now, the bulbs, as daffodils, and most of the camellias have played out. 

Many gardeners consider common Carolina jasmine to be a weed and pull it up wherever they find it. Not I. Its bright yellow flowers and aroma in late winter/early spring herald a new year, a new season. It is best to put this on a support, as the trellis here that forms the entrance to a walk path. I have to fight this vine to keep it under control, but it is worth it for the beauty it offers at this time of the year.


Forsythia is one of the best shrubs for the south. It puts out tiny yellow flowers, similar to jasmine, in late winter-early spring before it leafs out. These are along a walk path. They have passed their flowering prime which was a couple of weeks ago. If you live in the south and have room for one shrub, it should be camellia. The second one should be forsythia.


This dwarf peach tree is beginning to bloom. My guess is the vast peach orchards from Alabama to South Carolina are in full bloom. Let's hope we do not have another killing freeze before spring.


This gold dust (Aucuba) is about to be devoured by this "Spring Bouquet" spirea. I should cut back the spirea but I hate too. Its aroma is similar to tea olive, but much stronger. This particular spirea is an excellent garden shrub and is underused in the south.


The commonly-called "Japanese Magnolia" tree is ubiquitous across the south, and for good reason. In February, before it leafs out, it is covered by upright tulip-like pinkish/purple flowers. This particular one is a slightly later bloomer called "Stella Jane." Each bloom is a beauty in and of itself, purplish on the outside and white on the inside.


I suggest we all take a deep breath and relax a moment. We are indeed facing a possible pandemic. It it happens, it happens. The virus will do its own thing. There are common sense ways to respond but they are not panic and hysteria. That will make matters worse. Let's all follow the guidelines issued by the public health professionals in charge, such as those of the National Institutes of Health and the Center for Disease Control.

Meanwhile, remember that in the big picture life goes on orderly and if you need a reminder of that go out into a garden, or yard, and enjoy the glory of God's creation in this early spring. It will help reduce you level of anxiety.








Monday, March 9, 2020





BISHOP WILLIAM LOVE AND LOVE



An article published on March 6, 2020, in Christian Today, a conservative, evangelical journal, is causing a stir among Episcopal Church critics who are promoting it. It is "A Trial that Should Shame all Anglicans," by David Baker, an ACNA "minister." Find the article here .

The point of Baker's article is that Episcopal Church presiding bishop Michael Curry, famous for his theology of love, is showing no love to Bishop William Love, of Albany. The author holds Curry's behavior, and the Episcopal Church actions concerning Love, are "shameful." Love is depicted as the innocent, correct-thinking, victim of a corrupt, wrong-thinking, church bureaucracy.  Unfortunately, Baker is misconstruing and misinterpreting the matter at hand.

We have to go back to General Convention of 2018. Resolution B012 "Marriage Rites for the Whole Church," included a section referring to dioceses that do not authorize liturgies for same-sex marriage. It said a congregation in such a diocese may request that another bishop be allowed to enter and provide access to the liturgies for same-sex marriage: (Resolved, That where diocesan canons or bishops exercising ecclesiastical authority do not authorize the use of these liturgies for persons of the same sex, congregations may request, and when requesting shall receive delegated episcopal pastoral oversight (DEPO) by a bishop of this Church who shall provide access to these liturgies, as permitted by civil law...) In other words, any parish may have the possibility of conducting same-sex marriage ceremonies. They may do so by a delegated bishop from outside the diocese. The resolution did not require a bishop (or a priest for that matter) to accept same-sex marriage. Nor did it require a bishop to adopt same-sex liturgies in his or her diocese. It is important to understand what the resolution did and did not say. Among the eight most conservative bishops, all but William Love, agreed to follow the terms of the resolution.

Love rejected B012 and banned it in the Diocese of Albany. He did this in an official letter to the diocese dated November 10, 2018. He directed:  Until further notice, the trial rites authorized by Resolution B012 of the 79th General Convention of the Episcopal Church shall not be used anywhere in the Diocese of Albany by diocesan clergy (canonically resident or licensed), and Diocesan Canon 16 shall be fully complied with by all diocesan clergy and parishes.

In the civil state, local rejection of a national law is called nullification. Some southern states tried this before the Civil War, unsuccessfully. It was unconstitutional. Nullification is also contradictory of the hierarchical nature of the Episcopal Church. Resolutions of the General Convention apply to all dioceses equally. No diocese has the right to ban a duly enacted resolution of the GC. The Diocese of South Carolina tried nullification in 2010 and 2011. Last September, the federal court in Charleston ruled this attempt at nullification to be illegal. It recognized TEC as an hierarchical religious institution entitled to govern itself. Following the federal court ruling in Charleston, we would have to conclude that Bishop Love has no right under the C and C of TEC to reject a canon of the Church in his diocese.

Following Love's nullification announcement, presiding bishop Michael Curry issued a partial restriction on Love, on January 11, 2019, forbidding him from interfering in any way with clergy in his diocese regarding same-sex marriage. In other words, Curry ordered the enactment of B012 in the diocese of Albany.

Love appealed against the restriction but agreed to abide by it pending future action. In September of 2019, the panel for the discipline of bishops agreed to refer the Love case directly to the Hearing Panel under terms of Canon IV. 11.3. This panel will hold a hearing on April 21, 2020, in Albany. Love has said he does not dispute the facts of the case, but does contest the legality of Resolution B012. I, for one, am unclear what he means by this. At least the hearing will give Love's lawyers the opportunity to argue once again against same-sex marriage which Love has characterized as the work of Satan (letter Nov. 10, 2018). A decision will be made by the majority of the members of the Hearing Panel. If it finds against Love, there are several options open under the terms of the canon. A guilty verdict does not necessarily mean deposition as a bishop.

So, back to the article in the first paragraph above. The author claims it is "shameful" that Curry does not show "love" to Bishop Love when Curry is famous for his theology of love. It implies that Love is the victim here. I argue it is the reverse. It is Curry who is showing love. In the first place, Bishop Love is subject to the governance of the Episcopal Church as per the vows he made at his ordination/consecration as a bishop. He does not have the right to reject duly made laws of the Episcopal Church. He has no leg to stand on in regards to Resolution B012. It is the law of the Episcopal Church. He has no right as an Episcopal Church bishop to defy Church law. Certainly, this will be judgment of the Hearing Panel next month.

The larger issue here is same-sex marriage. The Episcopal Church holds it is an act of love to allow this in the Church. Bishop Love holds it is sinful. So, who is practicing love for people who have been historically persecuted, ignored, marginalized, maligned, and denied human rights? It is Michael Curry and the Episcopal Church. They are the champions of love.

What is "shameful" is that many Anglicans around the world still believe it is the Christian thing to do to continue the historic persecution of a certain minority of human beings made in the image of God. Several Anglican provinces have indeed incorporated same-sex marriage into the church, to their credit. This is love. Yet, many of the Anglicans provinces still go out of their way to fight against equal rights and inclusion of open homosexuals. In too many places this discrimination applies to women also. Prejudice, bigotry, discrimination, and persecution of God's children is the true shame of the church.

Bishop Love and David Baker are entitled to their own opinions. In my view, they are misguided and unsupported by the facts.

The Episcopal Church has resolved to defend the human rights of all human beings regardless of sexual orientation, gender, ethnicity, or disability. That is love. The reverse is shameful.   

Sunday, March 8, 2020





A POINT OF PRIDE




It is with great pride that I share the news with you, dear reader, that Time magazine has named a neighbor of mine as one of the world's 100 most outstanding women of the last century. She lives right here in the little town of Jacksonville, Alabama. On any given day I might chat with her at the Post Office or see her going around town. She is Lilly Ledbetter.

The March 16/23 issue is devoted to "100 Women of the Year, A century Redefined---1920-2019." This is celebration of the 100th anniversary of women's right to vote.

Lilly Ledbetter was chosen woman of the year 2007, on page 127.

She is a remarkable person with a great story. She was the first woman hired as a manager at the big Goodyear tire manufacturing plant, in Gadsden AL. After nearly two decades, she accidentally discovered that all of the men managers made more than she, some much more, although they had served less time. It was blatant gender-based discrimination. She decided to do something about it and started a long, very long campaign in the courts for pay equality. Her case went all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court, where the 5-4 conservative majority found a loophole to reject her claim. They said she had to file a complaint within 180 days of the start of the discrimination. Ruth Bader Ginsburg wrote a scathing dissent blasting the conservatives and virtually demanding Congress close this loophole. Congress listened, at least the Democratic majority did. The very first law President Obama signed as president was the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Act Act, in 2009. Ledbetter and Ginsburg finally prevailed.

We have not reached pay equality yet, but we are getting closer and closer thanks to Lilly Ledbetter. Incidentally, since she lost her case in court, she never got a penny in payment. This has not stopped her as she still travels the world continuing on her great crusade for fairness for women workers. As for Alabama, no one represents us better than does she. We now have a woman governor and a woman Episcopal bishop-elect. I say thank God for these women, and thank God for Lilly Ledbetter. My daughters and granddaughter are better off because of her as are women and men everywhere.

So, thank you Time magazine for recognizing her contributions. For years, I campaigned here to invite her to be graduation speaker at Jacksonville State University. The authorities finally agreed. She did speak at a graduation but they refused to give her an honorary degree as is the custom with speakers. Oh well, a prophet in her own hometown...

Alabama gets lot of bad press, much of it deserved. So, it is good to see recognition for the great Alabamians who have contributed much to the betterment of humankind. Lilly Ledbetter is Alabama's very own Joan of Arc and I for one am very proud. 





Saturday, March 7, 2020





WHAT IS THE ANGLICAN DIOCESE
OF SOUTH CAROLINA?



The organization now calling itself the Anglican Diocese of South Carolina is having an identity crisis. They are preparing for their eighth annual meeting, at the Episcopal Church of the Cross, in Bluffton (March 13-14). So, the question of the day is: What is the Anglican Diocese of South Carolina? The corollary is: Where does it go from here?

Until last September, this group called itself the Diocese of South Carolina, the Episcopal Diocese of South Carolina, and the Protestant Episcopal Church in the Diocese of South Carolina. They claimed to be the historic diocese and its bishop to be the XIV bishop of the diocese. In short, they claimed to be the Episcopal diocese, just outside of the Episcopal Church.

Last September, Judge Richard Gergel, a federal judge in Charleston ordered this group (the disassociated diocese) to cease and desist from claiming to be the historic diocese. He issued an injunction effectuating this. Apparently, the breakaway leaders did not take Gergel seriously and went right on publicly claiming to be the historic diocese. The Episcopal Church went back to court and got a second order from Gergel enforcing the injunction. Moreover, Judge Gergel refused to issue a stay while his decision is on appeal and the Appeals Court also refused to issue a stay pending the appeal. The injunction is very much in place. Judge Gergel has TWICE ordered the disassociated group to stop claiming to be in any way the historic diocese. Odds are strong that the Appeals Court will uphold Gergel's ruling, probably sometime in the next six months. That should end the federal case. The Episcopal Church won across the board.

Since the disassociated group is not the historic diocese of South Carolina, what is it? I have several observations on this:

---The disassociated group is still having an identity crisis. Just recently, I found three examples where they are still claiming to be the historic diocese: 1-Their website still has a document claiming to be the Episcopal diocese: "The Protestant Episcopal Church in the Diocese of South Carolina 2017-2018 Pledge Report." Find it here . 2-Feb. 24, 2020, Kendall Harmon's blog had this: "The brand new TEC Diocese in South Carolina Files a Petition for a Writ of Prohibition with the South Carolina Supreme Court in its Controversy with the Historic Anglican Diocese of South Carolina." 3-Feb. 25, 2020, Harmon's blog had this: "AS Haley---The Brand New TEC Diocese in South Carolina Attempts an End Run by filing a request with the SC Supreme Court in the lawsuit vs. the historic Anglican diocese of South Carolina." Harmon is an officer of the ADSC. [Memo to Harmon: The disassociated diocese sued the Episcopal Church in state court, not the other way around.]

---Right after Judge Gergel's ruling last September, the disassociated group adopted the name "Anglican Diocese of South Carolina." Interesting to note that, at the time, they did not resist and did not ask for a stay of the injunction. As the judge pointed out clearly, this group came into existence in October of 2012 at the moment of the schism.

Is the ADSC Anglican? In name only. The dictionary defines "Anglican" as one in communion with the Archbishop of Canterbury. The ADSC is not in communion with the ABC, never has been and almost certainly never will be. In 2015, the ADSC joined the Anglican Church in North America. The ACNA is not in communion with the ABC. The ACNA is not part of the Anglican Communion and almost certainly never will be. It is supported by GAFCON which created it, with help of anti-TEC forces in America, in 2009, to be its proxy in the U.S. ACNA's aim is to keep open homosexuals from equality and inclusion in the church and to keep women from offices of leadership and authority in the church. Its goal is to replace TEC as the legitimate branch of the Anglican Communion in the U.S. This almost certainly will never happen. The ACNA is in fact an independent Christian denomination supported by the GAFCON group of Anglicans.

---Is the ADSC a diocese? It is a self-proclaimed diocese that was set up in 2012 when most of the leadership and laity of the Diocese of South Carolina left the Episcopal Church. The Anglican Communion does not recognize it as a diocese of the Anglican Communion. Likewise, the ABC does not recognize Mark Lawrence as a bishop of the Anglican Communion. Lawrence was not invited to the Lambeth Conference which will meet this summer. 

---Before the schism of 2012, many communicants of the diocese came to believe several assertions pressed by much of the diocesan leadership:


     1. The diocese was sovereign and could leave TEC at will. Not true.

     The federal court has recognized TEC as an hierarchical religious institution entitled to govern itself. Judge Gergel ruled that the historic diocese did not leave TEC. The breakaway group formed a new association when they left TEC.


     2. The diocese could leave TEC and take the rights, properties, and other assets with it. Not true.

     The South Carolina Supreme Court ruled that 29 local parishes and the Camp remained property of the Episcopal Church and its diocese. The federal court ruled that the Episcopal diocese was entitled to the rights of the historic diocese.

     These are the 29 parishes that belong to the Episcopal Church:
     Beaufort---St. Helena's
     Bennettsville---St. Paul's
     Bluffton---Church of the Cross
     Charleston---St. Luke and St. Paul
     Charleston---Good Shepherd
     Charleston---Holy Trinity
     Charleston---Old St. Andrew's
     Charleston---St. James
     Charleston---St. John's
     Charleston---St. Michael's
     Charleston---St. Philip's
     Cheraw---St. David's
     Edisto---Trinity
     Eutawville---Epiphany
     Florence---All Saints
     Fort Motte---St. Matthew's
     Hartsville---St. Bartholomew's
     Hilton Head---St. Luke's
     Johns Island---Our Saviour
     Mount Pleasant---Christ Church
     Myrtle Beach---Trinity
     Orangeburg---Redeemer
     Pinopolis---Trinity
     Stateburg---Holy Cross
     Summerville---St. Paul's
     Sumter---Holy Comforter
     Surfside---Resurrection
     Walterboro---St. Jude's
     Yonges Island---Christ/St. Paul's


     3. The diocese could leave TEC and continue to be Anglican. Highly dubious.

     "Anglican" in name only. The ADSC is not part of the Anglican Communion. Its parent, the ACNA is not part of the Anglican Communion. Its only recognition of being "Anglican" comes from GAFCON which has no authority in the official structure of the Anglican Communion.


     4. The ACNA was "orthodox" and so would grow while TEC was "un-orthodox" and would continue to shrink in size because of this. Not true.

     In fact, ADSC has experienced serious, relentless decline in membership. Here are the official figures of communicants of ADSC:
     2013---17,798
     2014---16,361
     2015---15,556
     2016---14,694
     2017---13,291
     2018---12,126
ADSC has lost a third of its communicants since the schism.


As the ADSC prepares for its annual convention, it is appropriate to look at its future. 

We have freedom of religion in this country. It is a bedrock right championed by the founding fathers. The people of ADSC have every right to follow whatever religion they wish. They do not have the right, however, to take the legal rights, properties and other assets that do not belong to them. The courts have now affirmed this.

The courts have ruled that the Episcopal Church is entitled to the history, the rights, and most of local properties of the old diocese. The ADSC will be left with six local parishes. They will probably make new congregations from present parishioners in the 29 parishes who will choose to leave when the Episcopal bishop returns. We know some of these parishes have been looking at properties for relocation. How many people will leave and how many will stay in the 29 remains to be seen. Judge Dickson signaled in his last hearing that he may be moving to implement the SCSC decision of Aug. 2, 2017. If so, the return of the 29 to the Episcopal diocese may not be far in the future.

Demographics show that the ADSC will probably continue to decline. Young people, even in relatively conservative South Carolina, overwhelmingly support equality for and inclusion of homosexuals, the transgendered, and women in social life. ADSC will have an increasingly difficult time attracting young people. And, as we have already seen, there is not much future in ACNA, or in GAFCON for that matter, at least in terms of being in the Anglican communion.

For the moment, we can count on ADSC remaining as a presence in lower South Carolina. And, I think the Episcopal Church should do its best to have as good relations as possible with their former co-religionists. At least at this point, we can conclude that ADSC's future is not bright and I think we will probably see its decline continue for the foreseeable future. It will have to scramble to flesh out a clear identity, reorganize its local churches, and build this new diocese into a viable and strong religious institution. The diocesan institutional structure will have to be rebuilt from the ground up. This will not be an easy task.

The clergy and laity of the ADSC will meet soon. They have much to consider about the present and the future. In looking over the program for the meeting, however, I see little regarding the big challenges of the day.

Wednesday, March 4, 2020




VIDEO OF THE DAY



Protesters rushed the stage last night at a Biden event. Jill Biden sprang into action spontaneously. She is our hero of the day. I nominate her to be head of the Secret Service. Nevertheless, it was scary to see protesters TWICE make their way to the candidate. These were peaceful vegans protesting against dairy. What if they had been armed assassins? I think someone needs to improve security around the candidates.

For the video of the day, click here .  




POST SUPER TUESDAY VIEWS



What a difference a week makes! The American political scene has changed dramatically in just the last few days. Yesterday was Super Tuesday in which fourteen states cast their votes in primary races. So, where do we stand now? Here is my take of where we are on the morning after:

---Biden is going to be the nominee of the Democratic party and will win the general election in November. The majority of Democrats are rallying around Biden and turning away from the radical agenda of Bernie. This is the proper approach because of history.

In the theory of revolutionary cycles of history, to which I ascribe, there are four phases of every great revolution of modern history: 1-overthrow of old regime and moderate reform, 2-radical reform, 3-counter-revolutionary reaction, 4-compromise between radical and counter-revolution. We Americans are now in phase three (Phase One was New Deal of the 1930's; Phase Two was Great Society of mid-1960's; Phase Three started in 1968 with Republicans' Southern Strategy). President Trump's genius is to energize and solidify the reactionary forces of Phase Three and combine this with autocracy. However, Trump has never had the support of the majority of the American people and he had done nothing to build his support beyond his base (Wall Street, angry white working class man, southern whites, evangelicals). Trump has coalesced forty percent of the nation solidly behind him. With this, he had accomplished a great deal in both rolling back democratic reforms and in building a non-constitutional personalized executive. The issue now before the American people is whether to continue with Phase Three or to go to Phase Four. The feeling I have today is that the consensus in the nation is to move to Phase Four. This will mean the rejection of Trump in the general election, especially since Biden clearly represents a settling down into moderation and order.

Bernie is out of step with history. He belongs in Phase Two. I believe this is why he is failing to win a majority of the Democrats' votes. He is the right man at the wrong time. He is either way behind the times or way ahead. I prefer to think he is way ahead and hope his sweeping reforms will come into fruition one day down the road. As for now, I think most people want the safety and security of moderation and order. This is what Biden is offering.

Apparently the move to Biden's promise of the restoration of compromise, order, and peace is what most Americans want now. The radicals who love Bernie are not the majority. Warren and Bloomberg, for whatever reasons, failed to convince voters they could restore order as well as Biden could. I think they are finished.

Thus, the overwhelming issue in this year's general election is Trump. It is a binary choice: four more years of Trump, which would be Trump on steroids, or a restoration of democratic values and governmental system. There was a loud voice from the people yesterday that we do not want four more years of Trump. 

---However, Trump remains extremely popular among his base. It is practically a cult. The best case in point of this yesterday was what happened here in Alabama. Jeff Sessions was on the ballot for the Republican primary for the U.S. Senate. He was thought to be a cinch. He had been overwhelmingly popular in the state until he became Trump's attorney general. Because he did not bend the law to do exactly what Trump wanted, Trump attacked and smeared Sessions mercilessly until the man quit. The compliant Trump train turned against Sessions. Yesterday, Sessions came in second--to a former football coach! Sessions won just 31% of the vote. Tommy Tuberville, once a hum-drum coach at Auburn, won 32% of the vote. These two will be in a run-off later this month. There is a good chance Sessions will lose. So, the devoted followers of Trump in Alabama trashed a man they had once revered simply to honor their beloved messiah. Nothing exemplifies the devotion of southern whites to Trump more than what has happened to Jeff Sessions, a man who is now all but politically dead in his own state. 

The point of this is that Democrats had better be prepared for a rough, no-holds-barred campaign in which Trump and his followers will do anything to get Trump reelected. Fox News and all of the powerful right-win propaganda machine will give us Biden-Burisma 24/7. There is just no telling what else will happen to sway this election.

Altogether, I take yesterday's events as good news. The country is moving in the right direction, to reject the politics of division and destruction that Trump personifies, and to restore the values of democracy and consensus on which this country has functioned so well for so many years. Today, I see a great deal of reason for optimism and confidence in the future.

(BTW, if anyone is wondering for whom I voted, it was Biden, for all the reasons I have stated above. Biden won a landslide in AL with 63% of the vote.)
______________
P.S. It was just announced that Bloomberg has dropped out of the race and has endorsed Biden and that Warren is considering dropping out.   

    

Thursday, February 27, 2020





A REPORT ON THE HEARING



The Episcopal diocese has just released a report on today's hearing. Find the article here .

According to this, Judge Dickson spent just thirty minutes listening to arguments concerning the Episcopal diocese's three petitions before the judge:  to implement the SCSC decision of Aug. 2, 2017, to appoint a special master, and to conduct an accounting. 

In the end, the judge gave no indication of when or how he would rule on the EDSC petitions.

The Episcopal side and the Anglican side have presented contradictory petitions to Judge Dickson. The Episcopalian lawyers are asking the judge to implement the SCSC decision that awarded 29 parishes and Camp St. Christopher to the Episcopal diocese. On the other hand, the Anglicans are asking the judge to set aside the SCSC decision and rule himself on who owns the 29 and the Camp. The Episcopal lawyers have a pending request in at the state supreme court asking the justices to issue a Writ of Prohibition to prevent Judge Dickson from ruling on the property issue since it was settled in the SCSC decision. We are awaiting a reply from the SCSC.

So, the bottom line of today is that Judge Dickson listened to arguments on why he should or should not implement the SCSC decision. For twenty-five months, we have been waiting on Judge Dickson to act on the SCSC decision. On the face of it, today changed nothing. Time will tell whether the lawyers' arguments today had any impact on the judge who seems so reluctant to implement the SCSC decision.

Wednesday, February 26, 2020





NOTES --- 26 FEBRUARY 2020



Since we have not heard otherwise, we may assume Judge Edgar Dickson will proceed with the hearing he scheduled for tomorrow. It is to be at 10:00 a.m. in the Orangeburg courthouse. Unfortunately, I am unable to attend. I expect the Episcopal diocese to post a report about the hearing by the end of the day tomorrow. I will post commentary here after I have received a first-hand report of what transpired in the hearing.

Judge Dickson stated as the topic of the hearing the Episcopal diocese's motions for implementation of the South Carolina Supreme Court decision of August 2, 2017. Long ago, EDSC petitioned Dickson to enact the decision, particularly by a special master and an accounting. However, at the last hearing, Dickson asked the two sides to submit proposed orders for a decision on the Anglican diocese's Motion for Clarification of Jurisdiction (they submitted the proposed orders a few weeks ago). That motion asked the court to set aside the SCSC decision on property and to have the circuit court decide who owns the 29 parishes in question and the Camp. It makes no sense to me that Dickson would jump from the ADSC Motion for Clarification to EDSC's motion for implementation. These two motions are contradictory.

All of this is complicated by the fact that the Episcopal diocese has gone to the state supreme court asking for a writ of prohibition to keep Dickson from ruling on the ADSC motion for clarification. So far, there has been no response from the SCSC on this. I do not see how Dickson can proceed with a ruling on the Motion for Clarification until we get a ruling from the SCSC on the writ. So, I really do not see much point in having a hearing tomorrow. What can be accomplished before a response from the SCSC?

Meanwhile, the anti-Episcopal Church side continues to misrepresent the litigation. They are saying the SCSC decision does not say what it says. They refuse to recognize the three majority orders on the last page. They assert that the five separate opinions that the justices wrote meant no decision. This is not true. On the last page, the court listed the three majority decisions. They are explicit. A majority recognized that the Episcopal Church owns the 29 parishes and the Episcopal diocese owns the Camp. It does not matter that the justices wrote separate opinions explaining their votes. That is irrelevant to the majority decisions. Moreover, the Anglicans insist the way the justices arrived at their decisions invalidated the majority decisions. For instance, Chief Justice Beatty said a parish had to give explicit accession to the Dennis Canon and yet no evidence was presented of explicit accession. How the justices arrived at their decisions is also irrelevant. The only thing that matters in any supreme court decision is the majority decision. How the justices arrived at the decision is irrelevant. Most seriously, the Anglicans assert that the circuit court can and must re-litigate the property issue in blatant contradiction of the August 2 SCSC decision. In fact, the SCSC has settled the property issue. A circuit court does not have the right to discard a supreme court decision and re-litigate the issues of law that were resolved in the decision. So, the Anglican leadership continues to misinform and mislead their people.

This is not surprising considering the Anglican leadership's track record of dealing with the truth. In the last two days in his blog, Kendall Harmon, an officer of the Anglican diocese, twice called the EDSC "the brand new TEC Diocese in South Carolina" and the ADSC "the Historic Anglican Diocese of South Carolina." Judge Gergel has TWICE ordered the ADSC to cease and desist from claiming to be the historic diocese. In fact, there is a legal injunction in place. Moreover, both Gergel and the federal appeals court have refused to stay the injunction pending the appeal. The Anglican leadership would be wise to remember that the federal court has recognized the Episcopal diocese as the legal and legitimate historic diocese and the Anglican diocese as a new creation in 2012.  

Not questionable is the fact that today is Ash Wednesday, a somber and sobering day. We are humbled to remember from whence we came. However, we know that forty days from now will be a glorious rebirth when the darkness will turn to light again, as it does every year.

Speaking of darkness, the political situation today is most unsettling. Last night's Democratic debate was a disaster. Trump and the Russians must be celebrating today. As of this moment, it looks as if Bernie will be the Dem nominee. Although I admire him greatly, I firmly believe he cannot get elected president. Trump and the right-wing media machine will smear this "socialist" to scare off moderate voters. The thought of another four years of President Trump is, well, I will save that for another day. We have enough downers for today.

You in South Carolina are called to vote this Saturday, if you have not done so already. I hope you will vote. 

I vote next Tuesday when Alabama and fourteen other states will hold their primaries. As so many other Democrats, I still have not decided for sure for whom to vote but am now leaning to Pete. I was leaning to Warren yesterday. Then, last night she went off the rails on Bloomberg and accused him of telling a woman to get an abortion. That woman's word was many years old and had never had any evidence. It was a baseless accusation that had no place in a televised debate. Warren meant to diminish Bloomberg, but only tarnished herself. I think she is toast. Buttigieg, on the other hand is the brightest, best informed, most articulate, most consensus-building of the candidates. He probably would not win, but I want to thank him for being there and giving reason to an otherwise crazy time.

Monday, February 24, 2020





VIDEO OF THE DAY



How do we find the courage to go on when we are surrounded by so many things that would hold us back? One way we do it is by the support of others. In today's video, a nine-year-old boy who is gay asks Pete Buttigieg how he can be brave and tell the world he is gay, just as Pete has done. Pete's spontaneous response is heart-warming. And, it brought people in the audience to tears. It may do the same for you. 

Find the video here . 

Saturday, February 22, 2020





EPISCOPAL CHURCH APPEALS TO SOUTH CAROLINA SUPREME COURT



The Episcopal Church and its Diocese of South Carolina have gone to the South Carolina Supreme Court for help with Judge Edgar Dickson. On yesterday, 21 February 2020, they filed "Petition for a Writ of Prohibition" with the state high court. In short, it asks the court to step in and prohibit Judge Dickson from re-litigating the property issue that was settled in the SCSC decision of August 2, 2017.

Find the Episcopal diocese's news release about this here . This contains the link to the Petition for a Writ of Prohibition.

To refresh everyone's memory, here is the last page of the SCSC decision. The three majority orders are clearly and plainly written, even enumerated as (1), (2), (3). 



The SCSC decision was assigned to Judge Dickson upon Remittitur (Nov. 19, 2017) from the high court. A remittitur is an order to implement a higher court decision. It is the assigned task of the circuit court to put into effect the SCSC decision.

However, the Anglican diocese refused to accept the SCSC decision. On March 23, 2018, they filed "Motion for Clarification of Jurisdiction and for Other Relief" with Judge Dickson. This claimed that the SCSC had not settled the property issue. The Anglican lawyers claimed the SCSC opinion was unclear, confusing, conflicted and ultimately unenforceable. Their motion for clarification asserted that since the SCSC had not settled the property issue, Judge Dickson should do that himself since he had the jurisdiction to do so. Meanwhile the lawyers claimed the 29 had not acceded to the Dennis Canon, the implication being that Dickson would have to rule against the Episcopal Church's claim of ownership under the terms of the Dennis Canon. Dickson began moving in that direction. He held a hearing, on November 19, 2018, concerning ADSC's  Motion for Clarification and then asked the two sides to present evidence about the parishes' accession to the Dennis Canon. He began collecting a mountain of papers from the two sides as he held three hearings. All the while, in the 25 months, Dickson did nothing to implement the terms of the SCSC decision favorable to the Episcopal Church.

So, the fundamental issue in contention is the ownership of the properties: the 29 parishes and the Camp. The Episcopal lawyers claim this was settled by the SCSC decision in favor of the Episcopal Church. The Anglican lawyers claim the issue was not settled by the SCSC decision because it was not clear and that Judge Dickson has jurisdiction to settle the property issue himself. 

The assertion that the three orders in the SCSC decision are unclear is not credible. A simple reading of page 77 shows the three majority decision to be perfectly clear. The supreme court justices issued three explicit orders by majority vote. That is the way supreme court decisions work. A mystery is why Judge Dickson has refused to implement the SCSC decision. Another is why he is entertaining a motion that clearly contradicts the SCSC decision that he has been charged to implement.

What is a "writ of prohibition"? Find the Wikipedia article about it here . According to the article, "A 'writ of prohibition," in the United States, is an official legal document drafted and issued by a supreme court, superior court, or an appeals court to a judge presiding over a suit in an inferior court. The writ of prohibition mandates the inferior court to cease any action over the case because it may not fall within that inferior court's jurisdiction..."

Lack of jurisdiction is the exact argument the Episcopal lawyers made in their Petition of yesterday. On page 1, they wrote, "Petitioners respectfully request this Court to issue a Writ of Prohibition to prohibit Respondent Judge Edgar W. Dickson ("Judge Dickson") from exceeding the Circuit Court's jurisdiction by ruling on a Motion for Clarification...a case that has been decided by this Court [SCSC] and is now before the Circuit Court on remittitur." On page 18, the Church lawyers concluded, "A writ of prohibition is required to ensure that the authority of this Court's [SCSC] ruling is preserved, that this litigation be brought to an end without further, unnecessary delay, and that the property rights this Court awarded to Petitioners be respected."

The Church's filing of yesterday leaves two questions to be resolved. 1-Will the Anglican lawyers file a response with the SCSC? and 2-Will Judge Dickson proceed with the hearing he has scheduled for Thursday, February 27, or will he cancel or postpone it? 

I will relay news as I receive it.

I, for one, think it is high time for the Church to take more aggressive action to get the SCSC decision implemented. Twenty-five months of waiting is a long time. What the lawyers did yesterday was hardball, but a move entirely justified, in my opinion. It is unimaginable that the South Carolina Supreme Court would not enforce a final decision that is now the law of the land. Of course, the Anglicans want to change the rules of the game, but they do not have that right. They cannot replay the game under their own rules. The game is over. They lost.  

Monday, February 17, 2020





HEARING NUMBER FOUR COMING UP



Yet again, Judge Edgar Dickson has scheduled a hearing in the church case. This one is to be at 10:00 a.m. on Thursday, February 27, 2020, in the Orangeburg County courthouse, in Orangeburg SC. This will be the fourth hearing he has held in this matter. I wish I could tell you, dear reader, what is going on with Judge Dickson, but honestly I have not a clue. I hate to say it, but very little of what he has done makes any sense to me. He has spent more than two years shuffling papers and marking time. Meanwhile the schismatics remain in control of the properties and other assets of the historic diocese that the high state court and the federal court both said belong to the Episcopal Church and its diocese. 

Find the Episcopal diocese's announcement of the hearing here . Find scepiscopalians' remarks about it here . In his email to the lawyers of last Friday, Judge Dickson said he wanted a hearing on the Episcopal diocese's three outstanding motions which essentially ask the judge to implement the South Carolina Supreme Court decision of August 2, 2017, particularly with a special master and an accounting. He has not addressed these before.

A brief review of the matter before Judge Dickson is in order. On August 2, 2017, the SCSC issued its long-awaited decision on the suit between the secessionist diocese (now called the Anglican Diocese of South Carolina) and the church diocese (the Episcopal Diocese of South Carolina). The SCSC issued three clear orders on the last page of the decision: 1-the eight local church entities that had not acceded to the Dennis Canon were free of trust control, 2-the twenty-eight local churches that had acceded to the Dennis Canon were now property of the Episcopal Church, and 3-Camp St. Christopher was property of the Episcopal Church diocese.

The Anglican diocese asked the SCSC for a rehearing in 2017. The SCSC refused. It also asked the U.S. Supreme Court to take the case in 2018. SCOTUS refused. That meant the case was closed. It could not be appealed or altered.

The SCSC issued a Remittitur to the first circuit court, the court of origin, on November 19, 2017. A remittitur is an order to implement a higher court decision. The chief judge of the first circuit, Diane Goodstein assigned the case to the only other judge of that circuit, Edgar Dickson. He officially received the case on January 10, 2018 (that's 25 months ago if you are counting).

Judge Dickson's assigned task was to implement the SCSC decision. He has not done that. He has collected a mountain of papers from the lawyers on both sides. This amounted to thousands of pages of motions, petitions, memos, responses, responses to the responses and on and  on. He has also held three public courtroom hearings. The net result of all of this is one order. In the second hearing (23 July 2019), Dickson directed the implementation of the first of the three orders in the SCSC decision, that seven parishes be recognized as independent of Episcopal Church control. This is Judge Dickson's one and only accomplishment in all of this time, and it was favorable to the secessionists.

The first hearing should have been a warning of things to come. On November 19, 2018, ten months after he received the case, Judge Dickson held his first courtroom hearing. In it, he complained the SCSC decision was unclear and confusing. He implied he did not know what the SCSC meant for him to do, in spite of the fact that the three orders in the decision were explicit, and asked the lawyers to turn in lists of issues they wanted him to address. They did, in reams. In the hearing, the judge said he would consider only one issue, ADSC's motion for clarification of jurisdiction (to discard the SCSC decision on property). All of this went nowhere. All this time later, he has yet to rule on clarification of jurisdiction.

After fourteen months of nothing happening, the Episcopal diocese's lawyers went to the state supreme court asking for a writ of mandamus in which the SCSC would direct Dickson to implement the SCSC decision. The SCSC denied this. So, here we are nearly a year after that and practically nothing has changed.

Judge Dickson did not rule on clarification of jurisdiction. Instead, he called a hearing for July 23, 2019, supposedly on the betterments suit (ADSC's suit to make TEC pay for the property). In the hearing, the judge tossed betterments aside and made two orders disconnected. One was to recognize the independence of the seven local parishes. The other was to order mediation, in spite of the fact that mediation had already been tried and had gone absolutely nowhere (the subsequent "mediation" lasted a few hours.).

Meanwhile, the Church lawyers grew increasingly anxious and frustrated. In October of 2019, they sent a letter to Dickson asking for him to implement the SCSC decision. No response. Then they sent a second letter. This time he responded by calling a new hearing (the third) on 26 November 2019. This time, Judge Dickson reverted to ADSC's motion for clarification of jurisdiction. He said he would consult with the SCSC for direction on what he was supposed to do. He also called for the two sets of lawyers to submit proposed orders on ADSC's motion for clarification. ADSC turned in its proposed order in December and the EDSC did soon thereafter. There has been no response of Dickson to any of this.

So now, Dickson proposes to move to another issue and hear about EDSC's motions on implementation. Given his record, there can be no guarantee he will actually talk about these. He may decide at the last minute to discuss something else. He may may make some other decision or order. In short, considering the record of this whole matter, there is no way to predict what Judge Dickson will do in his next hearing.

So, what does all of this add up to? We have one action, to give the seven parishes their independence. That is it for the 25 months and counting.

Back to my first point. None of this makes any sense to me. I know there has to be a reason for all of this but it is hidden whatever it is. scepiscopalians suggests Judge Dickson is helping his friends on the breakaway side by dragging this our forever. I would not argue against that. I simply do not know why two years of virtual inaction and I doubt anyone outside Judge Dickson's close circle of friends would know.

What we do know is that Judge Dickson was tasked with implementing the SCSC decision that explicitly returned 29 parishes and the Camp to the Episcopal Church. More than two years later, the Episcopal Church still does not have the 29 and the Camp. 

Next week could be the time Judge Dickson finally moves on implementing the decision. I for one am not holding my breath. We have been down this winding road of dead ends here and there too many times. The lesson we have have learned is to expect nothing. Maybe Judge Dickson will surprise us and maybe he will not.